Teams

Is some element of the game overpowered? Or useless? Is there a strategy that's unbeatable?
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loki
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:24 am

Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:09 pm

Hello everyone but most importantly Mike,

It has been a little while since I have given feedback and i apologize. There are some very big concerns I have after having layed in the background and observed the running nations, and then made an attempt to join the established nations after making sure I had no footing.

Here are my finds and some possible solutions to the issues.

The Issues

While most people want to be on a team because they want to play alongside their friends other players prefer to play by themselves and are at a severe disadvantage. Traditionally woc was a team game. Still can be but would have to be in a different way through alliances. the BIGGEST problem with teams, and why just about EVERY game I have seen that have "energy costs" or are limited gameplay all have solo account designs with alliance features is the potential for abuse. If you want to appeal to a larger chunk of today's market you are going to have to stop players from being in 1 nation together. Even though limited by manpower they still have in some situation 12 people to cover shifts like a job, also they will grow faster, maintain better, and ultimately be more successful. While success is the goal, I do not feel that achieving it simply by having more people available is a good idea. Solo players are already leaving and are more inactive. Baldur, Sphinx, Myself to name a few. As soon as you touch 1 thing.. these teams of many players are able to completely wipe you off the map within minutes because there is so many of them. .. WHY IS THIS AN ISSUE??? Well .. It took me myself 5 hours of walking planting fighting etc to get my stats semi decent and able to even attempt an orb fight. Well b y the time i got all my stuff... I was out of manpower. then the teams log in. With in 12 minutes everything I had just spent 8 hours MYSELF doing was undone by teams with player counts of 12. so the solo players 8 hour struggle... was made meaningless... in 10 minutes due to the teaming aspect. so unless you have 20 hours to play as a solo nation (which nobody does i struggle to find 3 hours a day) you will not hold orbs.. maybe touch them but will never make credits or lists because the teams will bully because they can. These teams are also capable of running multiple nations while STILL defending their main nation. Spitfire for example has 3 running nations right now. immortal Outlaws and Killemall Have 2 running nations. What is happening is that they will take everythihng in the stronger nation... place defences in the other one.... evac res from the stronger one and grab in the lower one as a placeholder. (Napoleon is infamous for this) Example... I walk around and wipe out every manpower res so nobody is generating any decent manpower.... then i evacuate them and walk to them on my level 90 (which never holds orbs) and anyone whoi touches even my level 90 I will use 4 players in 3 nations each to wipe everything you own within 10 minutes. I think it is clear that teams are making the game very bad. nations should be solo similar to clash of clans or forge of empires.

Proposed Solutions

1. the obvious solution of making nations solo
2. Leadership efficiency - The old game had a system that would negetively affect a nations stats based on the member count. This should be implemented once again and I feel even stricter. the old game would allow i believe 6 members before stats started dropping this caused many things to happen.
a. created competition because your team was under 6 people.
b. still made it possible to be inside a nation with all of your friends
c. crippled multi device users ( currently if i really wanted I could be on 23 names in 1 nation at 1 time just by myself by using many devices.
d. Made large teams split up

3. Orb and Resource purge timers (this is a variation of moving the res) This one right here I have given a lot of thought to. I feel like this could add a lot of DEPTH to strategy in the game. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out a few ways to do this. I have a few variations which I will share but this one, the purge timers, I feel is the most efficiennt, interesting, and adds a loooot of dept to strategic positioning.
So what the purge timer idea is.... Nations can hoard resources. This can prevent potential competition from getting strong enough to even fight, I have whitnessed this personally as i said i purposly let the other nations get established then tried to take them down (failed). so What I feel could make this better is to have the nation purge itself of unneeded resources. I'll explain.

res gets stronger in the east and weaker in the west. upcomming nations enter from the east. What if we added a purge timer to the nations that would purge all of the lower tier res the nation holds until it is down to cap values. So Say you set the timer to 6 hours. every 6 hours the purge timer would trigger. The nation would then (similar to lvling up and borders) evacuate all of the lowest tier res it holds of the 3 core stats (psi tech bio) until it is down to only having enough to remain at cap. So the nation will not lose its good high tier res that theyre most likely defending. It would make free res for nations in the east to obtain. It would prevent anyone from hoarding all the res because it would just get purged so whyy bother. It would make it easy for you to manage your geo efficiency because the weak res would get evacuated leaving only your good res to keep you at cap. then you will know for sure whayt you have to defend the most. I feel liek it adds many layers of strategy to the game by doing this.

I will share more ideas later... I am curious what everyone thinks of purge timers.

Steve
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:14 pm

Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:34 pm

The fact is, the spitfire/kea/power rangers/IO res war was the only reason that our lower nations were grabbing res, geo means you can't hold way over cap so everyone was using lower nations to hold them in order to force the enemy team into using MP rather than just leaving them evacuated and open and IMO was a brilliant strategy by all..

Moving on nobody is running 2-3 nations lol, spitfire for certain, i know slayer is kicking around in mids but so what? If he wants to run kea on fire and a level 70 on noons that's his choice, and eventually he will need to fight on 2 fronts to maintain that.

Nobody is doing anything wrong, if mike takes the team play away from WOC then enjoy the 3 players left that will be playing, if you reduce it to 6 man teams then spitfire has an even bigger advantage, we can do 2 6 man teams with just as good of 24 hour coverage.

My advice would be form a team or join one..wait those 3 different teams you've been apart of in the last few months have resulted in you arguing and being kicked from them so maybe this is a bitter team hate post..

Once the game picks up more players NOBODY and no TEAM will be able to dominate, intact when 100s of players show up everyone will be begging for more relaxed mp numbers and bigger capacity teams. Youll see..

Right now your seeing the same 20 players, and 1 or 2 big teams able to dominate because of that, the same thing happened in old wocs closing stages but it never did during the days of 300 players online.


Give it a few months and you'll be agreeing with me.

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Napoleon
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:51 am
Location: Brampton

Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:31 am

Woah,

This is potentially the most hilarious thing I have read all week long.

So wait just a minute, you are now complaining about teams? And team size?

Let's take a look at something... Image

Remember that? When you were on Team KEA, with Terror, Perrin and Slayer and you were destroying everyone else? Talking like you are king of the game? Remember when you were bragging in chat about no one touching fire but you.... but we took it as you were bragging?

"Fiddling while Rome is burning" was what Randy said in chat after your long speech. No wonder no one wants you on their team. You can't even protect their assets.

It was all good when you were on a team dominating... but now that you have been unable to keep a team, or friends you are upset and want to ruin it for others.

The issue isn't teams... we have a small player base of what... 25 people online at once at most during peak times? With a larger player base the issue will straighten itself out with only a handful of teams dominating. The game is a team game, and encourages teaming up. If you don't want too or can't(In this case you) team up that is your choice.
These teams are also capable of running multiple nations while STILL defending their main nation. Spitfire for example has 3 running nations right now
That's a lie. Nice try.
immortal Outlaws and Killemall Have 2 running nations.
Facts, they have two nations... hogging up double the resources. Spitfire has one set of resources and only one nations. So take that up with them, not us.
evac res from the stronger one and grab in the lower one as a placeholder. (Napoleon is infamous for this)
Seriously? Uhm, your in game boyfriend who you recently supposedly broke up with is the master at that. Slayer has about 25 nations on the map and holds most of the resources on the map among many of his nations. You are pointing the finger at the wrong group simply because you have an Anti-Spitfire agenda.
I think it is clear that teams are making the game very bad. nations should be solo similar to clash of clans or forge of empires.
Honestly.... do you even know what you are talking about? Clash has team based play in the form of Clan Wars... your bases are individual, but the game is still a TEAM game... just different dynamics.... and BTW Clash allows 50 teammates. You need to get your head wrapped around WoC needs to evolve into a large team game. Okay so what you eliminate large teams, we will just use mutliple individual nations to keep wiping you off the map Loki. Your problem isn't a team problem, it's a YOU problem.

Your diplomatic skills are complete garbage, your ego is out of control and you have very little combat ability. You keep getting schooled by everyone who comes across you, and not even your endless stream of credits can buy you even a small ounce of skill. Whose to blame for that? Teams? If you treated people better you wouldn't be getting wiped all the time.
Proposed Solutions

1. the obvious solution of making nations solo
2. Leadership efficiency - The old game had a system that would negetively affect a nations stats based on the member count. This should be implemented once again and I feel even stricter. the old game would allow i believe 6 members before stats started dropping this caused many things to happen.
a. created competition because your team was under 6 people.
b. still made it possible to be inside a nation with all of your friends
c. crippled multi device users ( currently if i really wanted I could be on 23 names in 1 nation at 1 time just by myself by using many devices.
d. Made large teams split up
1. NO. You shouldn't force people to play solo in a team game, wait for the solo server bud.
2. NO. If anything have a cap of say 20 people per nation to start, you shouldn't limit it to just a handful of people. Large communities from other games may start playing and want to play together, and you shouldn't prevent them from doing so. Secondly this stops nothing, okay. We will just split into two nations and wipe you off the map or three nations. Whatever it takes to destroy you.
A. 6 People??? Get your head out of the sand, this isn't old WoC, MP restrictions make it an even playing field regardless of team size kiddo.
B. You can do that now without any changes??
C. Uh, multiple device users would exist in both ways, and is a problem currently and is potentially always going to be a problem.
D. Okay, we will split up into two nations and kill you with two sets of MP instead of one, NP Bro, we will split the orbs between the two nations.

And I am not even going to touch on the purge times because that is opening up a whole can of worms I don't even want to get into right now.

Bottom line is this Loki, you have a personal vendetta and you are willing to whine and complain to try to cause anguish on those you are after. You don't have the time to play so you choose to try to get at us this way by trying to get mike to restrict things in the game on our group.

Yes you can't compete, yes you are solo (now), that's your problem. Slayer is pretty much solo and he is doing pretty okay? Did you look at fire recently??? Oh yes, and I know he has other peoples names in KEA, but you have other nations in Nightmare too.... sooo??? It doesn't matter.

You need to become more pleasant, form a team and try to compete normally. You need to be more diplomatic and get more active. If you don't then this will keep happening to you...

Image

And just to clear this up, that isn't even Spitfire that jailed you. You are clearly pissing EVERYONE off and that's why you keep getting destroyed.

And everything that I am saying is to reiterate what Steve just told you.

The issue of multiple nations, and multiple device use needs to be tackled before any form of team cap is invented.

Therealplagel
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:53 am

Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:52 pm

Step 1: Be more likable
Step 2: Join a team or form one
Step 3: ?????
Step 4: Profit

loki
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:24 am

Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:03 pm

funny all 3 responders are on the same team.just saying.

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Napoleon
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:51 am
Location: Brampton

Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:31 pm

You personally attacked our team.

Just saying.

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Philly
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:02 am
Location: Wi, USA

Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:02 pm

Loki. you suck!

okay now that, that is out of the way.

my perspective...you pissed off a team, that shows 12 members in it.
your mad at me, because I told magickillers your crap...(its true, you whine, are a loud mouth, and hold no loyalty, why else do you think slayer left you hi and dry? (fun fact they can read your whining on forums as well)
your mad at powerrangers, because they have a team ( I'm in it)

my question is, when are you going to learn how to be diplomatic? you run your mouth in chat all the time, and cant even click to save your life out of a jail...try not pissing people off, you'll go far m8 :)
"If you can't explain it to a 6 year old, you don't understand it yourself" -Einstein
Discord: TheRealPhilly#3897
Main Nation: Phoenix
Running Nation: ImmortalOutlawz
ALWAYS recruiting! Come join experience, activity, and fun!
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Napoleon
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:51 am
Location: Brampton

Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:55 am

Amen Philly.

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Mike
Site Admin
Posts: 290
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:13 pm
Contact:

Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:53 pm

I agree that WoC puts solo players at a big disadvantage right now, but I don't think limiting the number of players in a nation would help. As soon as a bunch of players decide to work together, they have a big advantage in WoC -- whether they're all in the same nation, or in several different nations that work together. There's no way to prevent players from deciding to work together, and for many players that's a lot of the fun of the game.

The problem is that the biggest goals in WoC, orbs, are zero-sum -- if one nation wins, the others lose. Any zero sum elements like that will be dominated by the large groups of players who work together. A game like CoC has some zero-sum elements, like Clan Wars, and some non-zero sum elements, like matchmaking and building up your own base, that solo players can do well at because they're not competing directly for the same things as other players. In WoC solo players can advance their own nation over time, and now there is a form of farming again, but solo players can't really fight for a place on the ranks lists, or for orbs and resources, nearly as well as teams can. I think WoC will eventually need some more non-zero-sum aspects, something more like farming/matchmaking/crafting/etc, that solo players can excel at without having to outcompete teams.

As for the purge timer, it looks like we will need some way to more effectively limit how many resources a nation can hold. One idea is to have a manpower and/or energy cost for each resource held. Another idea is a purge timer (though I'm wary of having nations evac resources by themselves, I'd like to keep that under player control). Any other thoughts or ideas are welcome.

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