Rebirth: Proposed Changes

Have an idea for how to make War of Conquest more fun? Let us know here.
User avatar
Mike
Site Admin
Posts:338
Joined:Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:13 pm
Contact:

Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:39 am

We've been talking about changing the rebirth system for a long time, and I'd like to get the new system in place before open beta starts (hopefully) later this month. Here is the new system I'm considering implementing. Questions and comments are welcome!

Proposed new rebirth system:
  • XP curve adjusted so that, for dedicated nations, it will tend to take about 2-3 weeks to reach level 100.
  • Countdown to rebirth begins at level 101.
  • The rebirth counter starts at 100, and rebirth takes place when countdown reaches 0.
  • Each day, rebirth countdown decreases by (nation_level - (100 + rebirth_level_bonus)).
    • So, if a nation stays at level 101 (in its first rebirth cycle) its countdown would go down by only 1 per day and it could hold off rebirth for 100 days. At level 110 countdown decreases by 10 per day, etc.
  • Rebirth can be delayed by purchasing credits. 1 is added to the rebirth countdown for each 100 credits purchased.
  • Once the countdown is going, the option is always available to rebirth immediately any time.
  • After first rebirth, nation starts at level 31.
  • With each rebirth, nation gains a +1 level bonus, meaning they are reborn one level higher but the number of XP needed to gain the next level is shifted down by one.
    • So, after first rebirth the nation starts at level 31 and it takes the same XP to reach 32 as it took to get from 30 to 31 in the first cycle.
    • After the second rebirth the nation starts at level 32 and it takes the same XP to reach 33 as it took to get from 30 to 31 in the first cycle.
    • After the tenth rebirth the nation starts at level 40 and it takes the same XP to reach 41 as it took to get from 30 to 31 in the first cycle.
      And so on.
  • The level bonus also applies to the level at which the rebirth countdown starts. So eg. the second cycle's rebirth countdown will start at level 102, etc.
  • The level bonus is limited to +50. (Fifty rebirth cycles.) After that, a nation may continue to rebirth, but will not get any further level bonuses. It has maxed out.
  • Orbs will award XP as well as credits, with greater orbs awarding more XP. This will force orb-holding nations to level up, and so to rebirth faster.
Goals this accomplishes:
  • Forced rebirth keeps cycling nations out of the high level areas, so different nations have their turn to be on top.
  • Fast progress through levels to keep the game from becoming boring.
  • Rebirthed nations re-starting at level 31 or higher keeps vet nations out of newbie areas, and lets rebirthing nations skip the tedium of early levels.
  • By gaining a +1 level bonus with each rebirth, there is a long term progression of increased power for a nation, that can last a couple of years before a nation maxes out.
  • Because nations can max out eventually, new players/nations will not feel "left in the dust", they always have the potential to reach the highest tier of the most powerful nations.
  • Active and orb holding nations will be forced to rebirth faster, within a week or so of the countdown beginning. Inactive nations can hold it off much longer. Any nation can rebirth whenever they want as soon as the countdown begins.

Sphinx
Posts:190
Joined:Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:40 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:51 am

in my opinion, rebirth still doesn't seem "worth it", it should give some small extra bonus. Not to big to be overpowered.

Example bonuses per rb level:
  • +1% geo efficiency
  • +1% max power cap
  • +2% energy generation
  • +3% manpower generation
  • +4% energy capacity
  • +5% manpower capacity
Some of them might be overpowered. Maybe give one of them per rb level, or all of them. If all of them, then numbers should be tweaked. If let the player choose which bonus they want per rb, but in that case the bonuses should be equal, so everyone don't take the same one every time.

Dre
Posts:27
Joined:Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:04 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:06 am

I like these ideas Mike. I'm all for it. :)

Everyone's opinion matters here though.

User avatar
Napoleon
Posts:148
Joined:Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:51 am
Location:Brampton
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:47 pm

I feel like 100 is too low.

It hardly gives high level nations enough time to enjoy the map.

No real arguments other than that.

I also agree with Sphinx.

If you look at Clash of Clans (I have used this reference before) after earning war XP you gain Clan levels and each level gives you a perk. Maybe something along those lines would give incentive for people to use one nation and rebirth it multiple times.

Auralprophet
Posts:6
Joined:Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:17 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:20 pm

Let's try this again. (First post didn't post?)

I don't like forced RB. I feel it takes away from the competition. Like in gym class when everyone gets a medal for participating. Why should we bust ass and fight over big orbs and such when we'll loose them in a week. Might as well write up a schedule and give everyone a turn. Also, if your goal is to make money, wouldn't this defeat the purpose? I for one will NOT be buying credits if I will loose all that I purchased soon after lvl 100.


It's possible to fix the issue by making depletable res, and by making the orbs "jump" around.

Zero
Posts:37
Joined:Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:07 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:22 pm

Give me a good reason to get reborn!!!

In the present case, I hit level 120, I would rather spend my time on orbs or fighting for them to get the 10 levels to hit 130 instead of getting reborn and take the path of re-acquiring the 120 levels and gathering resources.

In the proposed situation, +1 Level bonus is shit compared to the 2.4k credits i have to spend to get all the perms. I get 1k for getting reborn, still puts me at a deficit of 1.4k credits.

Ok I admit I sound rude in the above lines. But, see from the perspective of single player nations and new players.

They toiled hard to get to level 100+, what happens then. The deathclock starts ticking. Single player nations won't get too much of an orb time. They won't be allowed to make too many credits so that they can save for perms in the next cycle.

They get reborn, they are doomed. Old woc still allowed to save some credits after buying perms from the rebirth credits. Well if your goal is ultimately to make the usual play to win scenario, who am i to say and why do you even ask our opinions.

People buy credits for what, to expedite the time costs. Keep the context of free to play don't make it play to win.

Loki
Posts:130
Joined:Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:24 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:01 pm

I like most of this. Onee thing tho that absolutely CANNOT happen is +1lvl til rb starts for each rb.... this is insanity.... So your telling me that rb ticker wont start til at sometimes lvl 130??? so that nation gets to sit on the fire and make money/exp from 100-130 without losing any rebirth... because they have a 20 man team..... but me as a 1 man team only get to sit on fire at level 100 with my rb ticking away at me??? at that point.... the level 130 could just sit me out and wait for me to rb and then take the stuff... AND THEYRE THE BIGGER RBED NATION..... thats backwards

I feel like the more you have rbed the FASTER you should go through rb cyclles...... if yo do it this way... MARK MY WORDS ... this game will get dominated by the 20 man team, and nobody else will play.

Stop trying to appease to your old community and look to the future. Most of those guys dont even respect you and are trying to play youlike a fiddle. make all of these changes EXCEPT giving bonuses of +1 lvl to rb ticker... thats a very bad idea.

User avatar
Mike
Site Admin
Posts:338
Joined:Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:13 pm
Contact:

Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:46 pm

Lots of good debate here, thanks. Here are my thoughts on some of the big issues that were brought up:

1) Rebirth happens too soon or shouldn't be forced at all: Some good points are made that it's hardly worth putting in the time and credits to get to a high level if it will all be taken away a week after getting there. Makes sense. While I think some form of forced rebirth will be necessary, the timeframe could be extended quite a bit. The countdown timer could start at say 500 rather than 100, so that active nations would have over a month before rebirth rather than about a week.

2) Reward for rebirth isn't enough: I think the +1 level bonus will be substantial, as it's essentially giving a nation an extra advance of their choice for free, for each rebirth. That said, it would be possible to add quests based on number of rebirths, or special additional rewards, in the future.

3) Reward for rebirth is too much: Loki, you're strongly against the rebirth +1 level bonus increasing the level at which the rebirth counter starts counting down. I think it's necessary to do it that way, otherwise with each rebirth cycle a nation will have fewer and fewer levels that they can play, and take advantage of their accruing level bonus, before the countdown starts and they rebirth. Yes, after 30 cycles a nation's rebirth counter would only start when they hit level 130. But remember that it would take them just as few XP to get from 130 to 131 as it would take a 1st-cycle nation to get from 100 to 101, so the XP they get from orbs and battles would hasten their rebirth just as much as it would for a 1st cycle nation. Yes, a nation would be quite a bit more powerful after 30 rebirth cycles. Level 130 nations are more powerful than level 100 nations, but I don't think the difference is insurmountable at those high levels, a level 100 nation can still do a lot of damage to a level 130, given the right techs, correct? But yes, over time as nations start to go through many rebirth cycles, the most powerful orbs will tend to be held by the nations that have been through many cycles. That's part of becoming a more powerful nation through long term progression, and will be the main motivation for rebirthing, especially if the countdowns are allowed to be a lot longer. If you play say Clash of Clans or World of Warcraft, there's no expectation to be a top-level player tackling the high level quests until after many months of play. Long term progress over many rebirth cycles would have the same effect in WoC.

Loki
Posts:130
Joined:Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:24 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:10 am

I guess it makes a little more sense that way but I still see wiggle room for abuse is all.

I'd say try the patch.. it seems like most of us are onboard with it... but if i may just ask try it at the 100 not at 500 for rb... for the sake of testing... then we could all get ourselves a few rb cycles in over the next two weeks and test the flow before this month ends and stay on timeline for beta.

I aam only so strongly against the counter bounus due to feelings of it being exploited, but i guess if you are ok with a nation leveling from 100-150 soely from sitting on the fire orb (that is what will happen) then it wouldnt be an exploit but working as intended.


Try the patch... best way for alpha testing is to slap the patch in and see.... most of us it seems agree with at least 95% of it.

and as far as the peple cmplaining about losing the credits spent on perrmanent techs.... you said yourself it is supposed to be a tactical decision to by them or not... not a neccesity... so if they chose to spend those credits and were unsuccesful in holding orbs enough to replenish what they spent that is their own fault.

Sphinx
Posts:190
Joined:Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:40 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:22 pm

People who have rb-d, how is it?

I haven't yet, but still think its underwhelming. Few levels ahead in tech means nothing, especially if the other guy has more resources. Pretty much the same thing every rb, just have to start over again. Earlier in this thread i suggested some stuff, maybe discuss them?

We could think about something else to make rebirths more appealing. Perhaps some prestige icons on nation page?

Forced rebirth seems OK, to keep the game going and cycle high level nations. But it should be a good thing to rb, not a punishment.

Post Reply
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 36 guests