New Game World

Have an idea for how to make War of Conquest more fun? Let us know here.
User avatar
Mike
Site Admin
Posts:338
Joined:Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:13 pm
Contact:

Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:57 am

Manpower is an important issue that keeps coming back, and is central to what kind of game this is. You guys generated a lot of interesting thoughts about it.

Some of you think that rather than further limiting how much manpower can be purchased, manpower should be cheaper to buy, or else regenerate faster on its own:
Surfa wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:57 pm
Why not go the other way and focus on making purchasing MP more affordable, that way with quests or a couple orbs more people could do it. I think if you restrict MP refills to much and reduce accounts then people will get to play a few hours a day if that, and the problem people seem to have is running out of MP while other nations are putting in work on them.

Or do something like scale down mp per attack and hp but keep the same Max mp and mp regen
Surfa wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:53 pm
I think there also just needs to be acceptance that MP is going to be a wall for most people who end up leaving, as a 24/7 map you cant play on 24/7 is going to confuse or rub people the wrong way.
Tupac wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:06 pm
Remove MP limitations
Loki wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:52 am
- Remove Manpower restrictions all together.
ArcticPrism wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:30 pm
As far as manpower goes the regeneration rate needs to be significantly hire as you can burn all of it very quickly and it takes all day for it to fill up and is a big reason why being able to instantly refill is an incredibly powerful tool. Higher regen would allow people to play more often as well as reducing the need to have multiple accounts. You'll just need to find a good balance with the regen by allowing players to play a reasonable amount without having unlimited resources.
The original point of manpower is to put a limit on how much a player can play each day, so that players who are able to be logged in for many hours each day don't have an overwhelming advantage over those players who have less free time to play. Making it regenerate a lot faster, or be easier to buy, defeats that purpose. Maybe it's not doing that job well right now anyway -- players who have the luxury of being on many hours per day do have a big advantage as it is -- but to give up on that goal would mean to give up on appealing to the vast majority of gamers who don't have all day to spend on a game.
Tupac wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:06 pm
Restrict Game play time maybe a countdown timer for how much you can play in a day
Tupac you made two interesting suggestions, that seem contradictory to me: both getting rid of manpower limitations, and restricting how much a player can play each day. Manpower limitation is intended to do exactly that. What is it about the manpower limitation that makes it much less appealing to you than a straight-out daily time limit?
SkyHunter wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:16 pm
Maybe lowering the cost and limiting the amount available in a 24hr period would be a better solution than eliminating it. That way the players with little money can buy MP to defend themselves without depleting their hard earned credits to much.
That would be an interesting compromise solution, to put a lower limit on how much can be bought per day, but make that amount cheap to buy.

User avatar
Mike
Site Admin
Posts:338
Joined:Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:13 pm
Contact:

Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:32 am

Tupac wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:06 pm
  • Remove Double Defense - this kills the new players at low levels with defenses stacked
  • Remove the line push this forces the players forward. Make it like the old map so players can go everywhere.
Removing double defense, at least at low levels, sounds like a good idea.

As for removing the push line... the idea of having a gradual push rather than 3 individual level areas as in old woc was so that, for example, level 1 players don't have to compete in the same space as level 30 players. The push line gives each level at least a small area where no higher level nations can get to it, and a larger area where not much higher level nations can get to it.

One possibility would be to group levels together. Instead of a small push east with each new level, there could be a larger (10x as wide) push east, every 10 levels. This idea, taken to an extreme of pushing only every 40 levels or so, would then be just like old woc's system of just 3 areas. But a finer gradation, of say 5, 10, or 15 level per area, could give some of the advantages of both systems.

User avatar
Mike
Site Admin
Posts:338
Joined:Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:13 pm
Contact:

Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:34 am

SkyHunter wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:16 pm
A second server for new players to at least have the opportunity to run a nation to RB is IMO the bare minimum for attracting and maintaining new players. I never got the opportunity to run a nation to RB before being harassed off the server, and I am a vet from the original game. After being jailed for settling land I forced RB and quit. Which if I understand the rules, would make me a game veteran, even though I never really had a chance to run a high level nation.
This is a good point; I think I should change it so that a nation is only considered vet if it rebirths and is at least, say, 90 days old.

Loki
Posts:130
Joined:Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:24 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:40 am

some people may be angry about this but I'm going to say it.

I dont feel that the manpower is the issue. the issue is manpower burn.

Low level nations feel the effect of the burn a lot more than higher levels.
Manpower burn can be manipulated. I can log off with 100% mp burn because If I dont lose anything in 30 minutes I'll have total defence. stats through the roof then doubled. i dont need to attack or generate mp and when i need it i can just buy a refill.

i propose a fix would be to instead of burn mp for over res... give a geo penalty.. heres why

Towers would be affected... This would discourage hoarding because their towers would go inert if they lost geo... dont know the math of it but some number of geo % loss for some number of overstatting.


so instead of trading off playtime for stats... you trade off well stats and towers for the over res.

ArcticPrism
Posts:75
Joined:Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:31 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:02 am

Mike wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:57 am


The original point of manpower is to put a limit on how much a player can play each day, so that players who are able to be logged in for many hours each day don't have an overwhelming advantage over those players who have less free time to play. Making it regenerate a lot faster, or be easier to buy, defeats that purpose. Maybe it's not doing that job well right now anyway -- players who have the luxury of being on many hours per day do have a big advantage as it is -- but to give up on that goal would mean to give up on appealing to the vast majority of gamers who don't have all day to spend on a game.
What is your target amount of daily play hours? I think it's good to have the manpower limit since time is the most powerful resource and people who can and /or want to play a single game all day are a minority. I guess the manpower regen isn't too bad if you take temporary technologies into consideration. They are relatively cheap and long lasting too which means anyone should be able to afford them with home island bonuses and raiding.

Loki wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:40 am
some people may be angry about this but I'm going to say it.

I dont feel that the manpower is the issue. the issue is manpower burn.

Low level nations feel the effect of the burn a lot more than higher levels.
Manpower burn can be manipulated. I can log off with 100% mp burn because If I dont lose anything in 30 minutes I'll have total defence. stats through the roof then doubled. i dont need to attack or generate mp and when i need it i can just buy a refill.

i propose a fix would be to instead of burn mp for over res... give a geo penalty.. heres why

Towers would be affected... This would discourage hoarding because their towers would go inert if they lost geo... dont know the math of it but some number of geo % loss for some number of overstatting.


so instead of trading off playtime for stats... you trade off well stats and towers for the over res.
I like this idea actually. Being 200% over your resource limit doesn't matter at all unless you've spent a significant portion of your manpower and need regeneration. This would be a more effective punishment for exceeding the 200% limit in the current state of the game. Reduced geo hurts your defenses and your fighting power because it reduces stats gained from resources. I think your number of active defenses is equal to your geo. 75% = only 75% of your defenses work.

Tupac
Posts:77
Joined:Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:02 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:56 pm

Mike wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:32 am
Removing double defense, at least at low levels, sounds like a good idea.

As for removing the push line... the idea of having a gradual push rather than 3 individual level areas as in old woc was so that, for example, level 1 players don't have to compete in the same space as level 30 players. The push line gives each level at least a small area where no higher level nations can get to it, and a larger area where not much higher level nations can get to it.

One possibility would be to group levels together. Instead of a small push east with each new level, there could be a larger (10x as wide) push east, every 10 levels. This idea, taken to an extreme of pushing only every 40 levels or so, would then be just like old woc's system of just 3 areas. But a finer gradation, of say 5, 10, or 15 level per area, could give some of the advantages of both systems.
I never liked double defense. It is unfair to a degree, because the nation becomes unbeatable unless you nearly destroy them.

I feel like you should make islands with a push line. After a 10 level spread the advantage becomes superior. Make 2 500x500 per island. After 80 make them gradually grow.
Mike wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:57 am
Tupac wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:06 pm
Restrict Game play time maybe a countdown timer for how much you can play in a day
Tupac you made two interesting suggestions, that seem contradictory to me: both getting rid of manpower limitations, and restricting how much a player can play each day. Manpower limitation is intended to do exactly that. What is it about the manpower limitation that makes it much less appealing to you than a straight-out daily time limit?
I feel like after hearing the complaints for months this would be a good solution. Fix it so they can click non stop for 4-6 hours per day. No one has the upper hand now unless they play the full 4-6 hour period. Still this will create a more flexible and open map, because players will log on at different times. I say remove the man power because I can burn 200K MP full tempted and run out in 15 mins against the right opponent.

We learned how to manage MP, and use game mechanics to maximize the effectiveness of MP usage. Still no one understands how MP works. You kill the nations geographic efficiency (this costs the most MP), take their resources, and finish off the remaining remnants of the nation with very little MP usage. Lots of nations now run the 2 stat nations generally TECH and PSI. They don't realize the weakness of this as it offers very little MP regeneration, and why I don't use it. It is good for lower levels and high octane offense to start, but in the long run the nation can be killed very quickly and stay down, because it can't recover MP fast enough to fight. Ask Todd how much he spends on MP LOL :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: .

Temporaries should be at a fixed rate in the beginning. We forced market control in this server. We knew if we used it non stop it eventually would become a high price, and deter players from purchasing them, or if they did they would eventually go broke. The 2 stat nations helped this, because we use heavy artillery from the BIO temp branch now, because its so cheap. That was the second reason we continued demonstrating it to increase temporary price hikes.

Another big problem also is lack of experience. They need to fight each other. We have more experience than anyone due to us constantly battling, and going from fighting nations with 600-700 resources to 50-60 tops. If you don't think of something the experienced players will level non-stop and get to the top, and lock it down like we have. If you don't disable say XP temporaries, or reduce XP gained from resources. They need to go at it for a while to understand mechanics, and give a feel of game play. That is the problem now no one wants to fight they want to sit. They need to be forced to play.

Credit feeding needs to start on that server. The players believe that credits equal power. I think you should feed them credits on their first cycle for more achievements. Getting to Level 25 - 1000 credits, Level 50 - 2500 credits, Level 75 - 5000 credits, Level 100 - 10000 credits. Here is the catch though. You can only do this with 1 of your nations. Once its been done it can't be achieved again.

This server needs to be a testing of single nations, and single usernames. You shouldn't be allowed to play both servers. I think the problems will still be the same, but with time limitations, credit feeding, fixed temporaries (for now), and lack of MP it will give breathing room, but at the end of the day some one will dominate. I would consider this the SOLO server test. Name the server "Han Solo" (lol).

This is my opinion:

I still feel like at the end of the day it will come down to who understands the mechanics the most. This still won't make every player happy, and another team will dominate. They will try to pull off what we have.

Loki
Posts:130
Joined:Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:24 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:53 pm

Agreed Pac.

I feel that the geo rule for burn could be the best solution.

Dev
Posts:21
Joined:Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:49 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:24 pm

Well here it goes:
Eliminate the teams, nations can only have 1 player and unlimited manpower.

This will get rid of a lot of the issues, no more untouchable multiple player nations with multiple nations in rotation. Everyone gets a fair chance at resources and orbs, those who play more and longer will be rewarded by keeping things longer, but people who only play casually will still be able to be get in there and get some things too.

I mean a lot of people would hate this but about the big nations now, they'd have to all have 1 nation, and make deals to help each other, but how long would it last until someone decides they dont wanna wait their turn for the fire?

Tupac
Posts:77
Joined:Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:02 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:36 pm

Dev wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:24 pm
Well here it goes:
Eliminate the teams, nations can only have 1 player and unlimited manpower.

This will get rid of a lot of the issues, no more untouchable multiple player nations with multiple nations in rotation. Everyone gets a fair chance at resources and orbs, those who play more and longer will be rewarded by keeping things longer, but people who only play casually will still be able to be get in there and get some things too.

I mean a lot of people would hate this but about the big nations now, they'd have to all have 1 nation, and make deals to help each other, but how long would it last until someone decides they dont wanna wait their turn for the fire?
We don't play in 1 nation as it is now. We all run our own nation, and work together. So far 6 months straight.

Zenkai
Posts:8
Joined:Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:56 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:06 pm

Guys some really great points have been made, especially from Pac. One thing I am really unsure about is the idea of putting a time limit on how much a player can play each day. The game is advertised and plays as an MMO set in a perpetual world, I just don't feel like limiting play time fits in with the style of the game. The problem may lay in MP itself, I personally have seldom been held back by my MP, I can count on one hand the number of times I've actually ran out. Granted I might be better than most at managing my MP but it still feels a bit easy. Change the mechanics or the cost of MP so that it limits people, at least that way they feel in control of it rather than being restricted. On the same subject, I feel like with MP being such an important aspect of the game, there should be a more relevant mechanism that underlies it. Hit Points Per Square and Manpower Per Attack are both stats that effect how quickly you use MP, but I don't feel like I have much interaction with those stats, apart from some techs that give them. Keep up the discussion guys :)

Post Reply
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests